billion. now the trump budget is just a starting point, and congress will have to work through and make all the appropriations department by department. this is also one day early, the celebration for st. patrick's day in washington. the prime minister of ireland is here and will have the annual celebration to mark st. patrick day presenting shamrocks here on capitol hill and the white house, a chance to have a bit of a celebration between two countries with a long friendship. and that is, of course, something that will inspire many to wear the green. louis? >> our thanks to kelly o'donnell for that report. >> that does it for us on this thursday. "morning joe" starts right now. >> you had a big speech to the joint press on tuesday and great speech to party on tuesday. >>. then you start off with a tweet. >> it wasn't that tweet. >> you can't back up what you say. >> excuse me. i had a very successful joint session and got reviews even

from people i would never think i would get rerougviews. that speech was hot about two or three hours after the speech was made because they came up with other things, having to do with other people that they shouldn't have been able to do and they shouldn't have done. i think that maybe i wouldn't be here if it wasn't for twitter because i get such a fake press, such a dishonest press. i have my own form of media. so, you know, if i tweet two or three or four off five times a day and if most of them are good, i really want them all to be good but if i make one mistake in a month -- now this one, i don't think will prove to be a mistake at all. >> president trump saying it's okay if he makes one mistake each month but his claim that president obama committed a felony was not one of them. that was not a mistake. the chairman of the house intelligence committee, though,

says the president is wrong. we will get to that and what happened to senator lindsey graham's deadline for the fbi for answers. a judge late yesterday blocking the president's revised travel ban saying it still amounts to religious discrimination. in a moment we will speak with a legal expert jonathan turley. good morning, everyone. it's thursday, march 16th. joe hat morning off. with us we have washington anchor for bbc world news america, katty kay and president of the council on foreign relations and author of "a world in disarray," richard haass joins us. in washington senior political analyst for msnbc and nbc news, mark halpern. nbc news capitol hill hill correspondent kasie hunt is with us as well. it's been 12 days since president trump accused his predecessor of wire tapping

trump tower. you saw the interview earlier with his interview with tucker carlson and he brought what would be his evidence promising more developments to come. >> how did you find out? you said i just found out. how did you learn that? >> well, i've been reading about things. i read, i think it was january 20th, a "the new york times" article where they were talking about wiretapping. there was an article. i think they used that exact term. i read other things. i watched your friend brett bayer, the day previous, where he was talking about certain very complex sets of things happening. and wiretapping. i said, wait a minute. a lot of wiretapping being talked about. i seen a lot of things and i won't discuss it because we have it before the committee and we will be submitting things before the committee very soon that haven't been submitted as of yet. >> you're the president. you have the ability to gather all of the evidence you want. >> i do, i do.

but frankly i think we have a lot right now, if you watch -- if you watched the brett bair and what he was saying and what he was talking about and how he mentioned wiretap you would very very confident you could mention the name and he mentioned it and other people mentioned it. when i say wiretap, those words were in quotes. that really covers because wiretapping is pretty old-fashioned stuff but that covers surveillance and many other things and nobody ever talks about the fact it was in quotes but that is a very important thing. we will be submitting certain things and i will be perhaps speaking about this next week but it's, right now, before the committee and i think i want to leave it there. >> why not wait? >> i think you're going to find some very interesting items coming to the forefront over the next two weeks. >> okay. richard haass, what do you -- how do you assess what the president said? >> politically, my first instinct is when you're in a

hole, stop digging. >> right. do you feel that he is digging there or that there is -- >> digging. >> -- or maybe a way to explain this in a different way that wiretapping means other things? >> we know what wiretapping means. this is not how he wants to be spending his political capitoal. it should be saving health care and you have any number of international challenges this week and the chancellor of germany coming in for a critical visit. this just seems to me to be off message and just reinforces the sense of an administration that has lost its focus. >> willie, what do you think? >> he has accused president obama of committing a felony and that tweet 11 days. tucker said why don't you wait until you have the evidence? ed i have the evidence. i read it in "the new york times" january 20th and preins priebus protested and said it was fake news and then cited the

brett bair interview and he was interviewing paul ryan and he cited reports of wiretapping. he wasn't confirming or stating those were true. he is falling back on the media and has to say i believe "the new york times" is failing. but that is the source of my information. so now republican allies of the president are beginning to grow weary of waiting for the administration to justify that wiretap tweet. after nearly two weeks, house intel committee chairman david nunez took a stronger tone on the president's claim. >> we don't have any evidence that that took place. and, in fact, i don't believe just in the last week of time the people we have talked to, i don't think there was an actual tap of trump tower. president obama wouldn't physically go over and wiretap trump tower so now you have to decide as i mentioned last week do you take the tweets literally and if you are, then clearly the president was wrong. >> fbi doctor james comey will testify before the house

intelligence committee on monday. he had deadline of yesterday from a judiciary subcommittee to respond to lindsey graham and sheldon whitehouse. >> apparently, the fbi has contacted my staff that they will be at some date in the future providing us an answer to this in a classified manner. we gave the director until today to answer that question and all i can say is i still don't have the answers to those questions. we are going to get an answer to whether or not the trump campaign was surveilled. was warrant requested or one issued? i hope to be able to answer the question is there an active investigation on the criminal side of the trump campaign regarding ties to russia. >> we need an answer to that question. as chairman gray mentioned today, they have offered us a classified answer to that question in a week or so and i guess we should hear them out. but for the life of me, i can't

understand why the answer to that question should be classified. >> senator whitehouse on "hardball" there last night suggesting the fbi ask for more times. the senators suggested subpoena for their answers, if necessary, did not say if they had issued that subpoena yesterday. kasie hunt, we had lindy graham on the show yesterday and sitting on the set with mika in washington. he was frustrated then and he was frustrated after you heard from him in that meeting room. you can find out whether or not trump tower was wiretapped with a phone call and for some reason they are not getting an answer if it it was. >> if not a phone call in one of the secure briefing rooms in the capitol. comey was held this close to the vest and i think a growing sense on capitol hill there is more suspicion when there is no information. so the fact that they are, i think, for some -- for anybody that wants to defend the president, i think they want some public answers because they

want to be able to have something to say. they feel like this looks like you're covering something up. i think democrats think, okay, if we get an answer to this that is, obviously, evidence in our favor, evidence that the trump campaign did have contacts with russia. i think look. you played earlier in the block devin nunez, the chairman of the house intelligence committee. i think the way he has changed his tone and answers on this is potentially very significant. he has been the president's -- one of his most aggressive defenders and for him to say the president was wrong in these tweets if you take him literally i think is an important marker in this ongoing saga. >> katty kay, it seems at this point what they are wanting from him, even republicans like lindsey graham and devin nunez, they want the president to either follow through on his claim or walk it back, himself. not other people. himself. because there seems to be

something really morally significant about him doing that and the danger, if he continues to sort of riff around it which is what you saw happening on the friendly interview he had with tucker carlson about this, tucker trying really hard to give him an open space to perhaps say i misspoke which would be a lot better for our country. can you explain why that might be better, especially in terms of how the world views this president? >> the president in that interview with tucker was clearly trying to muddy the water. there may be other items. i was talking in quotation marks. it was about surveillance, not necessarily wiretapping and all of that is relevant. whether it's surveillance through a microwave or a telephone or a cell phone is totally relevant. he accused president obama of committing a prime. he has not rode that back and he suggested other bits of information he may release the

next couple of weeks. problem for the white house that the longer this goes on it starts to undermine their credibility on other issues. that is why republicans are saying you cannot trust what the president says as fact. >> mark halpern, you have layers of that happening. you have not only the president doing that, exactly what katty just spelled out beautifully, but you have a top adviser repeatedly going out, going rogue, saying things that are wrong, that are ludicrous, that are fantastical. she even talks about alternative facts. and you have this person in a very strong position in the white house. what exactly is the message here that from the top down, there are layers of people that seem to spread lies? i guess is

>> really. now this. religious discrimination. that pretty much sums up president trump's travel ban. that according to a federal judge in hawaii who, last night, issued a temporary nationwide restraining order on the administration's new ban. the revised ban was scheduled to go into effect today. u.s. district judge derrick watson said the 90-day pause on

issuing visas from six muslim mantle countries is on the basis of religious discrimination. the judge cited white house aide steven miller in the ruling, specifically comments he made in february when he told fox news that the new travel ban is just like the first one. >> one of the big differences that you're going to see in the executive order is that it's going to be responsive to the judicial ruling which didn't exist previously. and so those are mostly minor technical differences, fundamentally you're still going to have the same basic policy outcome for the country but in terms of protecting the country, those -- those basic policies are still going to be in effect. >> also in the ruling the judge writes, quote, the illogic of the government's contentions is palpable. the notion that one can demonstrate an miss toward any group of team targeting them at once is fundamentally flawed and cited specific comments from the president himself.

quote. for example, in march of 2016, mr. trump said during an interview, i think slam hates us. mr. trump was asked is there a war between the west and radical islam or between the west and islam itself? he applied, it's very hard to separate because you don't know who's who. at a rally in nashville, president trump was defiant. >> a judge has just blocked our executive order on travel and refuges coming into our country from certain countries. this ruling makes us look weak, which, by the way, we no longer are. believe me. this is a watered-down version of the first one. this is a watered-down version.

and let me tell you something. i think we ought to go back to the first one and go all the way, which is what i wanted to do in the first place. >> the department of justice writes, in part, the president's executive order falls squarely within his lawful authority in seeking to protect our nation's security and the department will continue to defend this executive order in the courts. let's bring in law professor of george washington university, jonathan turley. professor turley, what do you make of this judge's comments as he moves to block this ban? >> well, it's not too surprising in the sense that the ninth circuit opinion is still good law. you know? the trump administration not only drafted the original order badly, they defended it badly and they left that earlier order in place. that is like a torpedo in the water and really hit. this judge is in the ninth circuit. to make matters worse, you have people, political individuals

throwing red meat in the media while the justice department is talking like vegans in court. you know? the judge couldn't help but notice that and say, well, who am i supposed to believe? having said that, i got to tell you i thought this was a mirror image of the ninth circuit. . i think it's pretty light on case law. surprisingly light. it's more narrative and spends a lot of time talking about campaign statements which i don't think is -- >> how useful are they? they certainly mean something to us because he is living up to his promises and in this specific case. a little frightening. how useful in the rule of law are campaign statements? >> yeah. i got to tell you, i thought that was a very weak emphasis of the opinion. and i would be surprised if a lot of judges put that much emphasis on campaign statements. the court relies on a case called mccreary that says you don't have to just take the facial neutrality of the order.

he does say the order is facially neutral but he says i don't have to do that. another case went the opposite way that day in 2005. i don't think the case law is quite as strong as the judge makes out to be. >> jonathan, this ruling like the previous ruling, largely relies on preceding comments from the president and his administration and now new comments by members of the administration. so what happens to this ban on the ban that we have had from hawaii? how does this play out? >> yeah. it's a good question. you do have a national restraining order which the judge is perfectly permitted to do. it would go ultimately to the ninth circuit if the trump administration decides to go for an emergency order, which is generally what administrations will do in such a circumstance. the ninth circuit will have to review this opinion and any other opinions as they come down. i think the administration is

going to use this second order, just by what the president said, to take it all the way to the supreme court. i do think the odds favor the administration. >> jonathan, it's willie geist. do you worry as a lot of critics of these last two decisions do that these have been politicized and they have been political decisions based on campaign rhetoric? if you read that decision yesterday, it goes on with campaign quotes and quotes from donald trump as president and not so much about the rule of law. >> i do. i do feel that this decision is not well analyzed. i think the base is not there. the case law is not there. i think the court spends too much time on campaign rhetoric. there is a lot of case law there supporting the president. the court also doesn't deal really with the basis of the president's arguments about these countries having insufficient vetting procedures. these are the same countries

that the previous administration named earlier for restrictions. not the same type that we are heave, obviously. but these countries were previously named by the previous administration. the court really just brushes over all that and i think it creates serious flaws in its analysis. >> that is absolutely fair. i will say, richard haass, the comments that miller made, that was not during an election and that was on a live television broadcast talking about this new ban being very much like the old one. that does seem legitimate because he is sitting in the white house. >> but only up to a point. at the end of the day, the courts operate in the law. they work on the base of precedent. any time you're basing an opinion on what you strive to be someone else's motives seems to be thin ice and true more broadly motivates hard to discern and who notes is miller is authoritative in these matters. the president can speak. my guess they are surprised and

thought they are redrawn this quite narrowly. i'll be honest i wouldn't be surprised if the administration ultimately prevailed here. >> jonathan turley, do you agree with that? >> i do. i think the judge wrote this in a way that makes it quite vulnerable on appeal, even in the ninth circuit. clearly, the administration did not bring its a-team the first time. i think it's there now. i think they are going to argue very strenuously and take it all the way to the top. it conceivably could go to the supreme court with a new justice by the name of gorsuch so depends on how long this will take. >> jonathan turley, thank you very much and appreciate your insight. mark, what do you think? >> i'm not a lawyer but i agree with professor turley on that ruling. go back to that national rally that we looked at before. he talked about health care in the rally. but nothing like the intensity or the passion or the crowd

reaction as he got when he attacked that federal judge's ruling. and i think ultimately prevailing doesn't matter for this president right now. it may on the policy but on the politics, he can't be distracted by this himself and his government when he has got his health care hanging in the balance a health care bill will determine whether he can pass things like tax reform, et cetera. i think he doesn't play long game very well whene is emotionally and intellectually invested in something and he is doing that now for a decision that will take time. >> health care is another huge story we have to get to. still ahead on "morning joe," senator rand paul and congressman mark meadows will join us. they are leading the push against their own party's plan to replace obamacare. the biggest cutbacks to the federal program since the draw down after world war ii is how "the washington post" describes the white house budget proposal which is out today.

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welcome back to "morning joe." the white house is unveiling its spending priorities today in what it's call the america first budget. president trump's first budget proposal includes a 54 billion dollar increase in defense spending 9% jump as well as a 7% increase to homeland security and 6% bump for veterans affairs. the administration says the increases will be offsociety by cuts on other agencies slashing the state department by 28%. the agriculture and labor departments by 21% each. with major reductions to health care and human services and commerce and more. the biggest loser the epa will

see 31% reduction and wiping out 50 programs and some 3,200 jobs. he will put the board wall with mexico. joining us now is director of the office of management and budget mick mulvaney. good to see you this morning. >> good morning, y'all. >> 54 billion more to defense and a big military build up and cuts to programs that affect a lot of people in this country including the department of education, the epa and the environment. how do you defend that? >> you can put the graphs back on the screen if you wanted to and i could point to you speeches that the president gave during the campaign that said exactly those things. nascar is how we wrote the budget. we pulled lines out of speeches out of interviews and talked to the president and turned his words, his policies into numbers. so folks who voted for the president are getting exactly what they voted for. those are the numbers he campaigned on. >> people see some of these numbers like the f-35 fighter, for example, cost a hundred

million or so to build one of those. at the same time, they see repealing charter money and do you see why people would be upset with that? do we need another f-35 rather than after-school programs? >> he tasked general mattis to work on efficiencies in the defense department. when you talk about priorities for national defense and homeland security and taking care of veterans and school choice what we have, when you look at the places that will reduce spending, one of the questions we asked was can we really continue to ask a coal miner in west virginia or a single mom in detroit to pay for these programs? the answer was no. we can ask them to pay for defense and we will but not continue to ask them for pay for the public broadcasting. >> richard haass, the state department, 28% or so reduction there. >> i think it's bad for national security.

i think every past secretary of defense would say if had to give a choice between continuing the state departments accounts and putting more money into the pentagon account, they would say we get more bang for our buck by what the state department does around the world. and what this will do is really hurt american support for things like fighting disease and what that does is then we are going to be vulnerable to infectious disease. it hurts development dealing with refuge. we psalm the refuge flows into the politics of error. it seems to me it has a very narrow degeneration. how did you justify building up defense and cutting state and leaving entitlements alone? why in particular are entitlements continuing not to be cut? >> the last question first. the reason entitlements are not addressed this is the budget blueprint and doing the budget in phases this year which is not unusual during a transition year. this is the discretionary spending of the budget and more bull futing in may and include tax policy and health care policy and mandatory spending

and we add revenues and policy numbers. the tradeoffs between the state and the military, make no mistake about it, this is a hard power budget. not a soft power budget and what the president wanted and what we gave him. >> mark halpern has a question for you in washington. mark? >> obviously, sometimes people look at these cuts and say the sky is falling. but can you talk about where you're concerned that perhaps some of these cuts may hurt americans lives, if anywhere? >> no. i think that we are actually doing exactly what we said to do to protect americans so we are spending more money, for example, on the border. we are spending more money on law enforcement generally. even though you see a reduction in the department of justice the amount of money they have to enforce the laws go up. we cut grant programs that are in the department of justice something i didn't know about until i got into this job. so, no, i think we are doing a better job of protecting americans and making the

reductions that can't work. >> kasie hunt is also in washington. go. >> director mulvaney, my question here this seems to be dead on arrival in congress. you already have republican members saying, look. especially on the state department, mitch mcconnell has said no way. does any of this have any chance. >> sure. keep in mind what we are trying to do is sending a message to congress. the message is clear. we want more money to defend the nation and the border and to defend the laws and do it without adding to the deficit this year. we are not balancing the budget here. we took a dollar away from here and reprioritize it over there. we don't balance the budget but we do reprioritize spending. if they are a better way to defend the nation and to enforce the laws without adding to the deficit. >> this is a 3 billion dollar

cut in after school programs and teach grants and aid to students. what do you say to a family who is a low income family and depends on this kind of money? what do you say to a teacher who is busting his or her butt every day and relies on this money? what happens to them? >> a lot of those programs we target, they sound great, don't they? they always do. we don't put a bad name on a program. programs are always wonderful and always small business or whatever. they don't work. a lot of them don't work. i can't justify to them to the folks paying the taxes and i can't go to the autoworker in ohio and please give me your money so i can do this program here someplace else that isn't helping anybody. i i can't do it now more and say i need your money to go help this program. >> these specific programs aren't helping anybody? >> we think the programs we have targeted are programs as i've mentioned simply haven't worked and can't justify their existence or duplicative of other perhaps and other programs can do the same thing. i lose track of the numbers. more than 50 job training

programs within the federal government. clearly there has got to be some opportunity there for a combination of savings. >> i think because it's too hard to kind of get you to pinpoint this right here, but i would love for you to come back with than example of an after-school program that doesn't work. >> happy to. >> and explain that to us. i mean that in all honesty because i think i understand what you're saying but i think there are probably some cuts here on programs that people are going to miss. i still can't get over that he was the security guy at georgetown. >> a great job. i got paid to study and talk to girls. >> i remember him. i now get it. now he has triplets. mick mulvaney, thank you. things you learn in the commercial break. up next we go live to moscow after russian charged spies of a massive cyber attack. those details are next on "morning joe." ♪

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a pair of hackers accused of arranging a massive hack on yahoo! accounts in 2014.

now for the first time russian spies are criminally charged by the u.s. government. >> reporter: it was one of the largest data breaches ever. >> yahoo! is tedealing with a massive security breach. >> they claim it was responsible by a state sponsored hacker. >> reporter: the massive cyber attack on yahoo! launched three years ago and mad off with information on 500 million user accounts and the justice department says it was directed out of here. and run by the very russian unit responsible for investigate be cybercrimes. >> the involvement and direction of fsb officers with law enforcement responsibilities makes this conduct that much more egregious. >> reporter: federal prosecutors charged two fsb officers with running the attack and accused them of hiring two known criminal hackers to do the actual intrusions. one, a canadian, was arrested in

troe toronto. the fbi says the russians were in it for intelligence so they could spy on specific yahoo! users and russian journalists and politicians criminal of the government, and u.s. diplomats and government officials including unnamed obama white house employees. the fbi says the hackers were in it for the money, pay by the russians and allowed to exploit credit card numbers and other data they stole to launch fraud schemes. cyberexperts say russia is depending more on hackers to do the dirty work. >> the hackers have better skills and better technology and better training. second, it gives the russian intelligence agencies plausible deniability. >> reporter: the officials say no decisions have been made about whether and how to retaliate. the u.s. could kick out russian diplomats as happened in december. or impose more economic sanctions as it has already over ukraine. matt lauer asked nikki haley

about russia's hacking anding in the u.s. election. >> what should the president do in response? >> take it seriously. we cannot trust russia. we should never trust russia. >> law enforcement officials say this new case has no connection to the long running investigation of russia's attempts to influence the presidential election. joining us from moscow for reaction there, nbc news chief global correspondent bill neely. what are you hearing? >> good morning. within the last few minutes, the kremlin official spokesman has denied that the russian state or at least russia's domestic spy agency, the fsb, had anything to do with these cyber activities. he said the u.s. have not reached out. he had no official information on these charges and he was relying, in fact, on media reports. this very much tallies what one kremlin insider told us earlier on. he pointed on out the department of justice has named individuals and not the fsb. he says this is all the work of

criminals. it's not getting much play here in russia. russians have long since tuned out the russia hacking story, believing, as one kremlin insider said, that russia is being used as a weapon and a u.s. internal political battle. here is what is not happening, mika. russian police are not running around here looking for two of the men who were named in thes charges. remember, one was arrested in canada on tuesday. another one, who was a former hacker, recruited by the fsb, was actually arrested here in december and charged with treason for allegedly passing information to the cia. so he is already in custody. of the other two, one is a 43-year-old senior russian intelligence officer. the other one, well-known hacker known to the fbi since 2013 for hacking into companies in california and florida and he

somehow escaped and came here and not being looked for irnl. remember, there is no extradition treaty between the u.s. and russia, even if they were arrested, i don't think you're going to see them in the u.s. >> bill, thank you very much. a new fox news poll 33% approve of the president's handling of u.s./russian affairs and 55% disapproving. the new numbers should shed light on how people feel about this. richard haass, connection to merkel's visit here. go. >> wait a minute. cyberhas become a principle domain of russian foreign policy. whether angela merkel shows up tomorrow, the chancellor from germany. she has probably spent more hours meeting with vladimir putin than any other western leader. it gives her a major opportunity to talk to donald trump about

just who putin is, how she sees the threat from russia. she has taken the lead in dealing with ukraine, what russia has done there. it also gives her a chance to probably tell the president something he has never heard. she can make the case for the european union. the entire european projt because she is from germany. the whole idea of this is make war unthinkable on the continent between germany and france which so dominated the 21st century. she can have a conversation about this president not about the eu or financial regulation or trade but about this as a peace project. this is a stability project. i think tomorrow's meeting might be, in some ways the most important foreign policy meeting that this president has had in his two months in the oval office. >> it's very interesting. with donald trump retreating from the world stage, certainly you know promoting hard power and not soft power, people in europe are starting to talk about angela merkel as the leader of the free world at the moment. that america has seated that

position to the leader of germany is an extraordinary moment where we are right now. >> the center of his immigration defense he talked about what is happening in germany and said it to tucker look what is happening in germany. when angela merkel was named "time" person of the year two times two years ago he said she is ruining germany the way she is opening the door to refuges coming into the country. >> the dutch elections yesterday. the fact that the far right did not prevail. it's the first sign of cresting we have seen in the populace nationalist tied in europe. the current thing is the french elections later this spring, really the future of europe is in the balance but, again, it's the perfect setup for angela merkel to come into the oval office say, yes, there is a populace challenge but, but, but. we have got to push back on it. rather than doing things like supporting brexit or sporting these groups, the united states could play a really constructive historical role by working with countries such as us, germany,

and france rather than supporting these elements that would pull the thread and lead to the end of the modern world. >> wouldn't it be nice to see that happen? >> yes. >> what i'm sensing i'm planting the seeds right here. a "morning joe" european tour i think touched off by the french elections. >> paris in the spring? a really good idea. >> no. i think seeing this from different -- >> if la pen win, that's it. it's over. >> i'm not joking. i think this is legitimate news coverage. we need to take a view from abroad. >> i volunteer. >> you're in! >> last night the president held a rally in nashville, tennessee, and paid tribute to president andrew jackson. ahead we bring in jon meacham who wrote an open letter to the president yesterday. >> it was during the revolution that jackson first confronted

and defied an arrogant elite. does that sound familiar to you? i wonder why they keep talking about trump and jackson. jackson and trump. i know the feeling, andrew! ♪ looking for clear answers for your retirement plan? start here. or here.

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final moments on the show today. >> not ever. >> we see the dutch elections to you. yesterday's vote came under the microscope of a test of worldwide populism and a bellwether for the upcoming french elections. rutte party has won the country's parliamentary elections.

he had a fierce challenge from far right candidate geert wilders for his signature rhetoric and style. wilders promised to close all mosques whose complain slogan make the netherlands hours again may sound familiar. oh, good god! okay. so rutte had been trailing wilders in the poll for months but duj media credits the handling of a spat with turkey for his late surge after claiming victory. rutte said the netherlands said no, quote, to the wrong kind of populi populism. >> we got it. >> what do you make of it, richard? >> look. no way that wilders was going to form a government given you have to put together a coalition. the fact he didn't win sends a

message that the center right can hold. they push back. they didn't give up the total nationalist card. they played it without the extremism and excess. i think the dutch people didn't want to go as far as wilders wanted to take them. this was a pushback. one of the first positive signs we see when you take a step back and you look at the last year or two, of politics in european countries. not in this country. one of the firs time we see in some says, the center held. . pushed back against the extreme. it's one sign. again, the most important thing will be what happens in april and may in paris. . that is the hinge election for the future of europe. but if this had gone the other way and wilders had gotten the most votes, it would have been tremendous momentum and even if he couldn't form a government, it would have, some mways totally undermine the confidence of centrist parties.

>> to some extent that already happened. wilders did worse than people anticipated and his poll numbers suggested. he already had an impact on politics and i think why people are looking at these far right movements in europe. they may not take over governments. lapen might not win the presidential elections but on issues like immigration she is managing to pull a center further to the right and that is what happened in the netherlands as well. it may happen in germany as well. and the whole -- the issues like european integration they are pulling people to the right. we are seeing a shift towards right wing nationalism even if these movements aren't winning in europe. >> richard, thank you very much. you have a good day. are you coming back? >> if you have me back. >> we will have you back. >> you should have a show where you throw a dart at a map and you can talk in great detail about what is happening. >> netherlands, go. >> ratings would go up. >> holiday. >> france in the spring.

>> see you in paris, mika. >> paris, be there, be square. still ahead the president offers promises to offer evidence that trump tower was wiretapped. a live report on the white house on that. we are likely to see the first republican vote against the obamacare replacement plan today. joining us this morning is two of the bill's most vocal critics. rand paul and mark meadows. "morning joe" is back in a moment. i work with people everywhere on sea, on land, and in the air. inspecting towers way up high avoiding turbulence in the sky. personalizing treatments with dna and recommending who should play. a dress that thinks, which crops to grow, tax prep to help keep payments low. you can find me on an oil rig, i answer questions small and big. hello, my name is watson.

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in the prospectus at thriventfunds.com. everybody. >> you need to tell them you want them to stand firm. you want to bring down the paul ryan plan! >> wiretap covers a lot of different things. >> with this order president trump is trying to keep people safe. >> a judge has just blocked our executive order on travel and refuges coming into our country from certain countries. >> health care, wiretapping and travel ban. president trump is confident on all three issues but members of

congress and a federal court not so much. as a tennessee rally proved yesterday, the president still has his supporters but, so far, hasn't translated into many victories on capitol hill. we are going talk to senator rand paul about his opposition to the house plan for replacing obamacare coming up. welcome back to "morning joe." it's tuesday -- thursday, march 16th! i'm having one of those days. joe hat morning off. with us on set, washington anchor for bbc world news america katty kay. veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle. >> nice for you to show up. >> yeah, mike, sleeping in. >> and also in washington is mark halpern. joining the conversation in nashville, tennessee, pulitzer prize award winner jon meacham. get ready to be bored.

meacham is hear! >> i get up early. the hundred years war is very important! >> i know. >> here we go. >> all about the french. >> yeah. >> we will find a way to weave you in. the president woke us up this morning to an approval rating has dropped significantly within the last month. according to a fox news poll, 43% of voters approve of the job the president is doing. down five points from last month. 51% disproof of the job trump is doing. on health care, just 35% approve of the president's handling of this issue. while 55% disproof. mark halpern, dig into the numbers here. >> well, i mean, polling is volatile right now. certainly the problem republicans have they agree they want to repeal the affordable care act. the problem is there is not a

lot of agreement on what they should replace is with and divides the republican party nationally and in congress. yesterday, the president in nashville at a rally talked about all of the things he thought was wrong with the affordable care act and how republicans live up to their promise to repeal it but very little what it's replaced with. you look at the polling on different provisions it's clear what they are trying to replace it with. many of the major provisions are not overwhelmingly popular and require a big sale job and paul ryan is ready to take those risks but the numbers are daupting and not a help to rally the party around tag this big risk together. >> another thing that might not help is accusing your predecessor of being a felon and 12 days sis president trump did that. i don't think that is a good thing. i think some people might be turned off. >> he has to pay a price one way

or another on that the next ten days, largely dependent on when director comey sits down in a public hearing on monday and talks about what the fbi knows perhaps and tells the committee what they know. but the bottom line, yesterday, mark, kind of instructive for people in the news business. the president of the united states, no matter what those numbers show, when he goes to his base in nashville, tennessee, i mean he is not losing much support in the people who put him in office. >> no. i talked to some of the voters there before the event started. it was late starting because not nearly enough mags to get people into the building and they did not want to start with loading the room up more. a lot of people came up to me including some i met during the campaign when he campaigned there previously who say said we don't love everything about him and know he is a flawed guy but this is the change we voted for and he did his greatest immigration on manufacturing and

trade and people love that. he talked about health care but not the reception when he attacked the media and the judge who ruled in hawaii. health care is front and center now. all of these these like wiretapping allegations and like immigration, all of these other fights are zapping some of the attention away from what need to be the focus right now which is this health care bill is really imperiled. >> if you could try to do this in a way that doesn't send us all to sleep, that would be good, jon. >> wow. >> you live, of course, down in nashville where the rally was. you speak to people there all of the time. if there is going to be an issue amongst trump supporters that does divide them away from the white house, what do you think it's going to be? what would be the fault line? well, i think interestingly, on health care any way, he has got a problem to his right. which i don't know that -- at least it took me a while to figure out exactly. a lot of people really want an

up or down vote to repeal obamacare. like a psychological moment of ka tharsist for the tea party. this is a very red state. only three counties went for secretary clinton. davidson county, which is urban nashville, memphis and one county out in nashville. this is as trumpian as it gets here. i think that people really do, i think mark is right, people really do want him to -- and the republicans to follow through with the spirit of the rhetoric on the campaign trail and that is something that is a conversation that, you know, one of the reasons we are so divided, i think, i think a lot of other people in the country take him, what, seriously, but not literally. a lot of folks really do want to take him literally on this. >> i think many do.

they believe everything he says. >> sure. >> yeah. >> do they not -- i presume people in tennessee amongst those millions who might lose health insurance? that is interesting. >> if that were to happen, that will be -- this is why i think the pressure is on even about the wiretapping claims which you see the president already trying to sort of side-step and riff around and refusing to walk them back. in an interview yesterday with fox news host tucker carlson, the president explained why he leveled the allegation on a saturday morning from his florida estate on twitter and broaden the definition of what would be his evidence, promising more developments to come. >> how did you find out? you said i just found out. how did you learn that? >> well, i've been reading about things. i read in, i think january 20th a "the new york times" article they were talking about wiretapping.

there was an article. i think they used that exact term. i read other things. i watched your friend brett bair, the day previous, where he was talking about certain very complex sets of things happening. and wiretapping. i said, wait a minute. a lot of wiretapping being talked about. i seen a lot of things and i won't discuss it because we have it before the committee and we will be submitting things before the committee very soon that haven't been submitted as of yet. >> you're the president. you have the ability to gather all of the evidence you want. >> i do, i do. but frankly i think we have a lot right now. i think if you watch -- if you watched the brett bair and what he was saying and what he was talking about and how he mentioned the word wiretap you would very very confident you could mention the name and he mentioned it and other people mentioned it. but if you look at the wiretapping and eavesdropping. when i say wiretap, those words were in quotes. that really covers because

wiretapping is pretty old-fashioned stuff but that covers surveillance and many other things and nobody ever talks about the fact it was in quotes but that is a very important thing. we will be submitting certain things and i will be perhaps speaking about this next week. but it's, right now, before the committee and i think i want to leave it there. i have a lot of confidence. >> why not wait? >> i think you're going to find some very interesting items coming to the forefront over the next two weeks. >> we don't have any evidence of that took place. and, in fact, i don't believe just in the last week of time, the people we have talked to, i don't think there was an actual tap of trump tower. president obama wouldn't physically go over and wiretap trump tower, so now you have to week, do you take the tweets literally and if you are, then clearly the president was wrong. >> it's interesting. willie geist, i'm looking at the president and watching him handle this situation.

i think it speaks for itself, whatever it is that he is doing, as we repeatedly ask for evidence in the head of the intel committee says there is none. clearly, the president could have called and gotten the evidence that morning if he wanted to. this is how he handles -- this is how he makes decisions, how he wants to level something out. and this is how he plays it out. when americans are considering their health care and other things that pertaining to them that this president, you have to look at how this president works and try and translate how that actually impacts your life. like the health care bill. how will it actually impact your life? and whether or not you really want that. very hard to understand exactly what he is saying. i aside from kisi inaccusing hi lying this is how he operates. instead of saying i don't have the evidence on this, i was

wrong, i read an article, the article was wrong. >> that was the chairman of the house intel committee. that wasn't some wild-eyed back bencher. the chairman of the intel house committee saying there was no wiretap. we can wait for director comey to tell us for chair. let me quote one other thing. donald trump last night talking to tucker went a long way to say i put wiretaps in quote and could mean a lot of things. on that list of march 4th tweets, he writes i bet a good lawyer could make a great case out of the fact that president obama was tapping my phones in october. no quotes whatsoever. he made a direct accusation against president obama his that his phoned had been tapped by a sitting president. >> the white house continuously is quoting the president did it again there. other news sources. he hasn't mentioned actual intelligence he has. he quotes other news sources. also misquoting those news sources. they quoted the bbc on this too and what the bbc reporting there were two russian banks that were

being surveilled. it is possible in the context they may have had conversations with the associates of the trump campaign. that is totally different from saying that president obama ordered the wiretapping of trump to tower. >> this is really important. >> it's all important because he is president of the united states. and everything a president says is important. but we have got to stop acting so surprised at his behavior. >> i'm not surprised. >> yeah. this is his pattern for his entire professional life since he began as a developer in new york with the phrases, the spin, the misdirection. perhaps next week, we will hear something interesting, interesting items. there are certain things he can't talk about, all of these phrases. he could be talking about a building dig he is reneging on but instead he is talking about this. what he is doing is damage to his own presidency because the main ball game here is health care. and by keeping this -- the light

on this problem, he has taken it off of health care. >> a bigger game here. i'll take this to you. i think that this wiretapping claim is illegitimate. i think that he is trying to defame somebody. take it as face value. i think he had somebody, this is vintage trump, if you're not surprised, i'm not surprised he released two pages of his best year of his tax returns and then set up the media. i mean, we have to look at his patterns. they are all coming to bayre. i'm just reporting who we are seeing. >> that is who he. >> to mike's point the travel ban and this is casting what he is trying to get done which is pass a health care bill but now mired in this. jon meacham, you wrote an

open letter to president trump on the occasion of yesterday's visit to andrew jackson's home. you, of course, wrote the pulitzer prize winning book on jackson. your piece lead all of us jackson did, you can too. you wrote, in part, quote. it's -- everybody should read it. read it in the tennesseean.

another line you wrote his p. pop >> i'm sure this has a great effect in the white house, first of all. i think everybody is about to change. as alec baldwin would say. look. trump has very little interest in history. he's entirely a creature of the moment. one of -- mike is exactly right. one of the tales about trump is whatever he promises something, it's going to happen next week, you can tell he is just making it up. you know? if you're going to play poker with this guy, that would be the thing. so what he wants to do and what steve bannon has done is try to cloak trump in the historical legacy of jackson. the first self-made man to be president and the first six

presidents of the united states, mika, will remember either virginia planters or adams from massachusetts, jackson had come from the lowest rung of white society and he had attacked elites and became a transformative figure. that is what trump wants to be. my own view is that jackson, by the time he became president, had been a prosecutor, a judge, a senator, a general. he was an outsider, but he was within a political culture. and that he also understood, i think this is the critical point, jackson understand that people thought he was crazy and he was able to leverage that in many ways. he was able to wield the threat of being a mad man and was able to master his tournament of virtues. what we haven't seen is whether president trump can do that. very little evidence he is independence in doing that. >> if you watched that rally last evening in nashville, it was back to the campaign. i mean, he talked about, he took

a shot at hillary clinton, the crowd started chanting lock her up again and he did a move where he steps back and sort of lets it fall over him and let the crowd perform their chants. >> lets it sink in. >> to jon's point, no evidence he is making that turn? >> it certainly does not feel that way to me being up on capitol hill every day as well. clearly, this is the environment that the president feels the most comfortable in. and i just don't feel it in the conversations kind of behind the scenes. i mean, what is going on right now with house speaker ryan? he got up last week, rolled up his shirt sleeves and did an entire power point presentation telling members of congress and with an audience to the president, this is our one best chance. this is the health care bill and how it's going to be. late last night he was talking to reporters acknowledging saying it wasn't going to pass unless they made some changes. i think that there is still a pretty significant disconnect between the president as head of government and president as

campaigner in chief. >> wow. kasie hunt, thank you very much. jon meacham, thank you as well. that was fascinating. >> jon, i was riveted. >> it was great. i loved it. >> i took notes. >> are you all going to be able to carry on? it was an enchanting historical spell that i was casting. >> can you stick around until noon time? >> no. no. c'mon man! >> still ahead on "morning joe," we look into the deep cuts inside the trump budget. poor meacham. reality check. congressman paul ryan says it's time to listen to feedback from his own party after his lieutenant said they had the bill they wanted. senator rand paul joins us for a live exclusive interview and so does mark meadows, chair of the house freedom caucus who says he can do the math on where the vote count stands. "morning joe" is coming back.

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morning. is it warm down there? >> ask bill karins. >> we will. two additions to the national security team dina powell has been now named deputy national security adviser for strategy. powell is expected to work closely with national security adviser h.r. mcmaster and to focus on long-term issues. she will continue to work also with ivanka trump and jared c b kushner. she served during the george w. bush administration. the move one phrase senator bob corker said dina will be outstanding in this role and she has tremendous relationships with all involved and the kind of person i think can create consensus in a role of really being a strategic person and i

couldn't be more excited. >> i'm reading tom cotton's twitter and retweet this. with years of experience in congress, white house, state and business, dina powell is outstanding choice for deputy nsa. i bet you this is one of those picks that both sides like or at least support or respect. . i know her well, for the record. >> her selection will make you a lot less nervous about what goes on in national security. >> national security adviser is mcfarland. questions about her experience and her ability to do the job. i wonder how this plays out now. >> we have worked with dina over the years and one of the most effective smartest people that we have come across. and in the interest of total transparency, you actually introduced her to ivanka trump which led to these jobs. >> ivanka was looking for someone to create something to celebrate women across america in small business.

i think they will still work on that. but dina was the idea and now she's headed over to hr's office and he really wanted her there. and i think jared and ivanka, from what i hear, very much support this move. >> it tells you a lot that mcmaster was pushing hard. >> i appreciate dina. this is hard and people like her stepping up, that is hopeful. former indiana senator dan coats will the next director of national intelligence and approved 85-12 senate vote. he will oversee 26 intelligence agencies and places james clapper who resigned during the transition. the white house is unveiling spending priorities today as we have been talking about what is calling the america first budget. joining us from the white house is nbc news national correspondent peter alexander. first of all, this will be our final accordancorrespondence of because at 4:30 eastern time your northwestern wildcats take on on my upstart evaporatvander

commodores in the ncaa tournament. >> it's great to know you. >> a fun ride but the dream ends today. >> no doubt. chris collins taking his duke magic to northwestern today. let's get back to the issue at hand here in the briefing room. we are expecting to hear from mick mulvaney and i know you spoke to him on "morning joe" this morning. broadlily speaking run you through the numbers what they describe as the skinny budget. in fact, the president's spending priorities but it has to be authorized by congress still. begin with where they are going to be spending more money, specifically in defense. up 9%. homeland security up 7%. and veterans affairs you can see 6%. those are the proposals there. but there are some massive cuts across the board affect willing all sorts of programs and departments to make up for that. at the state department down

28%. agriculture 21%. labor down 21%. health and human service down 18%. commerce as you note 16%. education down 14%. the budget also is going to really take a whack at the environmental protection agency with 31% proposed reduction in funding. according to "the washington post" it would eliminate 50 programs and 3,200 jobs. the promise that mexico will pay for the wall that president trump is certain to build, this budget calls for more than $4 billion of spend on that wall the course of the next two years. nearly $2 billion this upcoming year and closer to $3 billion the next year. the white house still insists that mexico will ultimately be paying for it but they haven't indicated how that is going to happen yet. "the washington post" says, in effect, this would be the largest drawdown, the largest cutbacks in federal program spending since world war ii.

this is what mick mulvaney, the budget director, said on "morning joe" this morning. >> a lot of those programs that we target at, they sound great, don't they? they always do. we don't put a bad name on a program. programs are always wonderful and always small business or whatev whatever but they don't work. i can't justify them to the folks paying the taxes. i can't go to the autoworker in ohio and say please give me some of your money so that i can do this program over here someplace else that isn't helping anybody. i can help them to ask for pay for defense. >> last night a travel back on air force one with president trump who came back to visit with reporters in a good mood despite a stinging setback to a travel ban. the president said a watered down version of the initial ban. this would have barred immigrants from six predominantly muslim countries. the president is ready to this

fight to the supreme court. the federal district judge in hawaii basically said this revised ban still amounts to discrimination. >> busy time at the white house. pete, i was born in evanston, illinois. if it was anybody else, i would be rooting for your team. the budget committee. take only four republican defections to stop it in its track and considering three members of the freedom house freedom caucus on that committee the vote is tight. is the freedom caucus really to sink the party's first real chance to repeal obamacare? chairman mark meadows joins us next.

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we have been working hand in glove with the administration on this agenda starting with this health care plan. because we made a promise, we made a promise to all americans, if elected, we will repeal or replace obamacare. now that we have the score, we know exactly what we are dealing with. now that we have a score, we can incorporate feedback to improve

this bill and refine this bill and those kind of conversations are occurring between the white house, the house and senate and our members and prethat tour to get into the conclusion of those things p.m. >> the house is put forward a plan to repeal and replace obamacare. we are going to get together and get something done. remember this. if we didn't do it the way we are doing it, we need 60 votes so we would have to get the democrats involved. they won't vote no matter what we do. they are not going to vote. so we are doing it a different way, a complex way, it's fine. the end result is when you have phase one, phase two, phase three, it's going to be great. going to be great. and then we get on to tax reductions which i like. >> all right. before that, you saw speaker paul ryan for the first time acknowledging changes will have to be made as the president has his sights set on what is next. joining us from capitol hill, chairman of the house freedom caucus and member of the oversight and government reform

committee, republican congressman mark meadows of north carolina. congressman, thank you for being on the show. >> it's great to be with you. thanks. >> so there is concern. no polls that show a lot of people are concerned that more people will be uninsured under this new plan. this gop plan in its form, paul ryan says it's their last shot to fulfill the promise of repealing and replace. do you think the bill should go through? >> when we look at this two things. we know obamacare can't stay because it's failing already. but the other is we need to make sure that the plan we put forth, not only has the coverage that you're talking about that you're leading in with, but the more important thing is that premiums come down. and it's our position and the house freedom caucus that the current plan doesn't go far enough and so we are working amendments as we speak. >> right. >> to hopefully make it better.

but, at this point, we have got to do better for the american people. >> okay. i want to go back to you said that obamacare can't stay because it's failing. can't it be amended? can't it be worked on so that it's improved instead of going back to square one? >> well, you know, we have been asking the democrats to do that for a very long time and, quite frankly, until now, they haven't shown a willingness and even talking to some of my democrat colleagues over the last week, there still is not a willingness to try to do that. you can take north carolina, for example. our premiums have gone up 30, 35%. again, 30% this year. we are down to one carrier. that is unsustainable for the people i serve but it's not just north carolina. it's from new york to california and in between. and so what we must do is make health care affordable. i think most people, when they judge our plan, our replacement plan, they are going to open up their insurance bill and say did

it go down? if it did, we would have succeeded. if it doesn't, they will judge it asbestos fa a failure. >> what democrats don't want to work on obamacare? every democrat we have talked to said it needs improvements, understood i-you're talking to them there and i'm talking to them on capitol hill. chuck schumer has come out and said don't expect us to help fix this. i mean, he has made public statements. so as we look at that, there's no one who has reached out to the democrats more than i have because i believe that as we look at this, how do we fix something that it is inherently a government-run program that normally, i have not found too many things the government does well, other than defend our country, and so here we are today trying to fix something that we have had three years of history already on why it has been a failure. >> mark halpern? >> congressman, i'd love to bring some of these negotiations that are going on between your group and leadership and the

white house into the open. so americans can understand what the discussions are like. can you talk specifically about the provisions you're insisting be changed to have the house bill that can win your support? >> really, again, it's about those premiums. so one of the things that we are looking at is, right now, under the obamacare, you've got to offer four different types of program. a bronze, silver, gold, platinum plan. really, we don't give insurance companies any flexibility, other than offering those with a certain type of benefit. we can't do higher deductible plans and can't tailor it to each particular person so we are looking at that. >> could you tick off the other provisions in the current bill that you insist be changed to win your support, besides being able to offer different kinds of plans? >> if we can look at the insurance mandates and some of those requirements and replacement is much easier when

we look at that. we look at some of the medicaid issues, we are trying to work with our more moderate members on that. and as we look at this, what we have to do is the cbo score recently talked about loriwe lo premiums by 10% the next ten years. those premiums actually go up. for me, and the people that i serve, i've made a commitment, i'm not going to take one program that is not working well and replace it with another one that potentially won't work well. we have got to do better on placeme replacement side of that. >> you know there are more than 500,000 people in the state of north carolina who enjoy health care coverage because of the affordable care act, who got it on the exchanges there. >> right. >> can you tell them affirmatively that they will all be taken care of under the new republican plan? >> you know, i can tell you that what we are doing right now is with those, i was on the phone with our insurance commissioner in north carolina looking at this plan and looking where we

go with that. and that any plan that ultimately gains my support and the support of the majority of the gop conference, will not only make it more affordable, but certainly will put it in a place where more people can do that. north carolina is a good example. as we look at that. we had high risk pools before the affordable care act. as we do that, it's making sure that i work with my insurance commissioners, those elected officials both democrat and republican to make sure that not only they have access to care, but they have lower care and those that need a safety net that we are there to do that. >> congressman you used a key word there saying they have access to care. the 550,000 people currently have that care. they have to get pulled off and then find it again. that sounds couple bumbersome o will lose it altogether. >> if you keep your health care, obama made a promise to us if you like it, you can keep it. they haven't now but it's not sustainable and what i was

talking about earlier. what is happening is we are down to one carrier. blue cross/blue shield in most of north carolina and they are talking about the potential of pulling out and just because it's not economically feasible. it's a matter do we act now to make sure they are protected or do we allow it to collapse? i think that that is not a prudent decision and so we are going to act now to make sure they have health care and can keep it. >> this isn't some grand policy debate to those 550,000 people in north carolina. what would it look like to them if obamacare is repealed with a new bill what process would they go through and how long before they get coverage again? >> when we really look at that it has to be a transition. one of the things that we are looking at is either a two or three-year transition. so, you know, i've been willing to be very flexible in terms of perhaps even supporting more liberal policy in that short term to make sure there is a smooth transition. because, you know, our bad planning on capitol hill

shouldn't create a crisis for patients and others. so i'm -- exactly right. we have got to make sure we don't have that and we are committed. in fact, i'm not going to vote for anything that doesn't have that to make sure that we don't leave them in the lurch. >> mike barnicle? so, congressman, you know, what happens in that short term that you just described if your child gets sick and you're on obamacare now, something that benefits you, a benefit that you enjoy that gives you peace of mind, but in that short term you just described, when you have no insurance, your child is sick, what do you do? >> you know, i tell you. as a father and as someone who knows that when your child is sick, there is nothing more important to you than that. that is one of those times when you hope it comes to you and instead of your child. again, that is why we have this transition period. it's not saying that we pass this -- if we pass this tomorrow, they will had will continue to have the same coverage they have under the

affordable care act as we transition people in a systemic way into something that is cheaper and that actually makes their health care affordable. i've got people having to make choices between putting food on the table and buying their insurance or making mortgage payments. this is unsustainable the way i is. but, again, it's making sure that whave a good transition period. i'm committed to do that. i think all of my colleagues on the republican side and even some on the democrat side are willing to work with us on that aspect. >> it's katty kay here. it sounds like your reiterating what the president says everyone is going to have better coverage and it's going to cost a lot less. the problem with that it's not been possible up until now and not a math situation that adds up. you're talking about an equation that has no solution. and whatever you are prepared to accept, it sounds like you've got colleagues in the senate, some dozen or so of them, who are going to say, hold on a second this goes too far on

cutting deficits and not far enough on making sure people have health coverage. >> i'm a physical hawk and really when we are looking at this particular plan, we can't focus on the deficit reduction. we need to focus on the individual, on that person, on that patient, you know? i sense a little bit of a british accent. i was talking to an mp yesterday in my office when this were talking about the health care in england and the waiting lines and everything that is there. so we can't have a system that is like that, but he with also need to -- >> actually, no conservative politician would suggest that they were going to do anything with a national health service in britain because it would be politically suicide to do so. he told me that as well. you know, sd that the political relate of fixing something is more difficult. so i can tell you that i'm willing to invest the political capital to get it right. you're saying, you know, we can't get it right. are we assuming that we have today is the best best? i can tell you not only is it not the best but we can do much better and why they have to

invest the time now to make sure that we do that. we had meetings until 10:00 last night. i was on the phone with white house administration folks to talk about potential changes last night. so i think the next week is critical. >> all right. congressman mark meadows, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> thanks, congressman. next hour westerly talk to one of the leading republican senators critical of the health care bill, senator rand paul. still ahead, this hour on "morning joe." >> this is ridiculous! what are we going to do? >> road trip! >> heavy snow cancelled flights for two congressmen on opposing sides of the aisle and what followed was an epic bipartisan road trip from texas to washington. congressman will herd will join us after their long commute to work. "morning joe" is back after this.

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♪ c'mon everybody. henry, you're live with all of our friends on facebook live. >> let me, first of all, just say i'm really, really proud of y'all to do that road trip in a bipartisan way. the last time i did -- ♪ ♪ massachusetts late at night >> good, man. feel good. >> seriously? they could have a show? i can tell already they could have a show. this is hilarious. >> this is congressman in cars having coffee. >> perfect! there you go. that is a chevy impala rented. joining us from capitol hill fresh off their 1,600 mile road trip together. how many hours did that take? >> 36 hours total and 31 in the car. >> wow! democratic congressman beto

o'rourke of texas and republican congressman will herd of texas, i love it. will, start. did you figure everything out? >> we did. we figured figured out that bipartisanship is not a dirty word. folks across the country are looking to come together and come to an agreement to make it a better place. >> we had a goal. we had to be here to vote at 6:30 yesterday. we started the day before at 7:00 a.m. in san antonio. we had to figure out how to get there, where to op, where to sleep. his bladder is smaller than mine. how he orders his water. all those things make us closer, i think. >> you would like to share? >> yeah. >> there was a great debate late on, i think 1:00 on the first

night about pie versus cake. i don't know if that was settled. it was a fun trip. we hit every issue multiple times. >> yep. >> i think people appreciated that. again, the feedback that we were getting during the drive was pretty fantastic. it helped us better understand each other. we worked on issues, bilateral relation between the u.s. and mexico on border security. there's areas i think we can work together on and move to a consensus. >> mike? >> guys, let's get down to the nitty gritty. a long car trip, the two of you together in the car. let's get to the play list. who picked it. what were the fights about? were there any fights about it? >> i'm starting that one. there was no fights. this was a play list curated.

he has unbelievable taste. i'm starting a variety in rolling stone. they need to do a behind the scenes on vos. >> we listen to after drive to bobby fuller for clash's version of "i fought the law," jim ward and the king of all road trip musicians singing "road runner" which yo played as we came in. and the crowd drove it. >> robert l. keen was awesome. i have to go. one of my favorite songs. >> we had some prince. >> "highway to hell" make it? >> that was a request from paul ryan. >> katty kay here. you have become global stars. i have been tracking your journey on my bbc show. it is the most popular segment.

please come back now that you are back in d.c. did you make the vote, by the way? critical. i know that is what you were racing for. >> with we did. it's funny. i'm very goal oriented, type a, i have to get to the next destination. will wants to stop, smell the roses and talk to people in the coffee shop. in 36 hours, we got there within 36 minutes of the vote. >> somebody was worried the entire time about getting somewhere on time. we had 30 minutes. we had 30 minutes to spare, plenty of time. everything was fine. >> nothing short of adorable. >> i love the music, by the way. johnny cash, i hope there was some "folsom prison" in there. >> we have to add that to the list. >> we are putting our spotify play list out there.

>> what was the one issue, the real life issue that maybe you found common ground on together during the course of those 36 hours you didn't know you had. >> let me give you the one that we ended up agreeing on yesterday. i think will began the trip believing that the freeze on hiring federal employees was a good idea. but, i told him about how it was affecting the v.a.'s ability to hire the staff they need to be able to take care of veterans. i think, will, i don't want to speak for you, but maybe that free isn't such a good idea. >> i think he appreciated the fellow agencies need to be able to hire and fire people quickly. that adds to efficiency and make sure we are doing the work of the people. i think we came together on that. we had someone with us during the trip that said we should, when it comes to hiring and firing, we should use a skal pal, not a sledgehammer.

i think that kind of encapsulates the position that we both got to. >> you come to a conclusion after listening to you two, that we are going to be okay. congressmen, thank you so much for so many reasons. that was fun. >> we need a road trip from that. >> that was just the beginning. >> stay on the road fellas. >> you have to commute every week. thanks, guys. still ahead, president trump hit the road to push the health care bill yesterday. as he sometimes does, he got a little sidetracked. >> the law and the constitution give the president the power to suspend immigration when he deems or she, or she, fortunately, it will not be hillary she. >> the president weighing in on a judge halting his travel ban, yet again. plus, our conversation with white house budget chief mick

mulvaney who used the president's campaign speeches to come up with the funding plan being unveiled to congress today. the latest on the health care battle when rand paul joins us. "morning joe" is coming back in a moment.

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great press, bipartisan and let off this tweet and immediately people say -- >> it wasn't that tweet. excuse me, i had a successful night, joint session. i got reviews even from people i would never think i was going to get good reviews, i got great reviews, then they came up with a new dialogue. that speech was hot for two or three hours after the speech was made because they came up with other things, having to do with other people that they shouldn't have been able to do and they have done. i don't think i would be here had it not been for twitter. i get such a fake press. i have my own form of media. if i tweet three, four, five times a day, if they are good, really i want them all to be good. if i make one mistake in a month, this one, i don't think is going to prove to be a mistake at all. >> president trump saying it's okay if he makes one mistake

each month. his claim president obama committed a felony was not one of them. that was not a mistake. the chairman of the house intelligence committee, though, says the president is wrong. we are going to get to that and what happened with senator lindsey graham's deadline to the fbi for answers. plus, a federal judge, late yesterday, blocking the president's revised travel ban saying it still amounts to religious discrimination. we are going to speak with jonath jonath jonathan turley. we have cat katty kay with . awe thor of "a world in disarray" richard haass. in washington, senior political analyst, mark halperin and nabs capitol hill correspondent, casey hunt is with us as well. it has been 12 days since president trump accused his predecessor of a felony, of

illegally wiretapping his headquarters. in an interview yesterday, you saw part of it, with fox news host, tucker carlson, he explains why he did that. he broadened the definition of what would be his evidence, promising more developments to come. >> how did you find out. you saidu just found out. >> i have been reading about things. i read january 20th a new york times article talking about wiretapping. it was an article, they used that exact term. i read other things. i watched your friend brett baier where he was talking about certain very complex sets of things happening and wiretapping. i said there's a lot of wiretapping being talked about. i have been seeing a lot of things. for the most part, i am not going to discuss it because we have it before the committee and we will be submitting things

before the committee very soon that hasn't been submitted, as of yet. >> you are the president. you have the ability to gather all the evidence you want. >> i do. i think we have a lot right now. if you watched the brett baier and what he was saying and talking about and how he mentioned the word wiretap, you would feel confident you could mention the name, he mentioned it and other people mentioned it. if you look at the things about wiretapping and ease dropping. when i say wiretap, those words are in quote. wiretapping is old fashioned stuff. that covers surveillance and many other things. nobody talks about the fact it was in quotes. that's a very important thing. we will be submitting certain things and i will be, perhaps, speaking about this next week. but right now, it's before the committee and i want to leave it there. i have a lot of confers. >> why not wait? >> i think you are going to have

a lot of interesting things coming to the forefront in the next couple things. >> how do you assess what the president said? >> when you are in a hole, stop digging. >> right. do you feel he's digging there or there is maybe a way to explain this in a different way that wiretapping means other things? >> wiretapping, we know what wiretapping means. again, this is not how he wants to spend his political capital. it should be on reviving or saving what's going on with health care. you have a number of international challenges. this week, he's got the chancellor of germany coming in for a critical visit. this seems so defensive and off message and reinforces the sense of an administration that lost its focus. >> willie, what do you think? >> again, he accused president obama of committing a felony in that tweet 11 days ago. when tucker asked, why not wait until you have the evidence. he said i have the evidence, i

read it in the new york times january 20th. a piece reince priebus' staff said was fake news. then he said in the brett baier interview, he cited reports of wiretapping. he was not confirming them or stating they were true. he's falling back on the media. of course, i believe "the new york times" is failing, but that is the source of my information. republican allies are beginning to grow weary of waiting for the administration to justify the wiretap tweet. devin nunez took a stronger tone on the president's claim. >> we don't have any evidence that took place. i don't believe, just in the last week the people we talk to, i don't think there was an actual tap of trump tower. president obama wouldn't physically go over and wiretap trump tower. you have to decide, are you going to take the tweets literally and if you are, then

clearly the president was wrong. >> fbi director, james comey will face the claims on monday. comey had a deadline of yesterday from a judiciary subcommittee to respond to questions from republican lindsey graham and democrat sheldon whitehouse. >> apparently the fbi contacted by staff that they will be at some date in the future providing us an answer to this in a classified manner. we gave the director until today to answer that question. all i can say is i still don't have the answer to those questions. we are going get an answer to whether or not the trump campaign was surveilled, was a warrant ever requested, was one issued and i hope to answer the question, was there an active investigation on the criminal side of the trump campaign regarding ties to russia?

>> we need an answer to that question as chairman graham mentioned, they offered a classified answer in a week or so. i guess we should hear them out. for the life of me, i can't understand why the answer to that question should be clapsz fied. >> senator whitehouse on "hardball" saying he asked for more time. they will subpoena their answers, if necessary, did not say if they issued it yet. >> casey hunt, we had lindsey graham on set with mika. he was frustrated then. you can hear him frustrated afterward in the hearing room. >> reporter: yeah. >>ivity's a simple phone call. you can find out whether or not they were wiretapped with a phone call. they are not getting a reason on whether or not it was. >> reporter: if not a phone call, a brief meeting in a secure room at the capitol. comey has held this close to the vest. there's a growing sense on capitol hill that, you know,

there's more suspicious when there's no information. so, the fact that they are, i think for some, you know, for anybody that wants to defend the president, they want public answers because they want to be able to have something to say. they feel it looks like you are covering something up. democrats think, well, if we get an answer to it, it's evidence in our favor, evidence that the trump campaign did have contacts with russia. i think, look, you played earlier in the block, devin nunez, i think the way he changed his tone and answers on this is potentially very significant. he has been the president's one of his most aggressive defenders and to say the president was wrong in these tweets, if you take them literally is an important marker in this ongoing saga. >> katty kay, it seems at this point what they are wanting from him, even republicans like lindsey graham and devin nunez, they want the president to

either follow through on his claim or walk it back himself, not other people, himself. because there seems to be someing morally significant about him doing that. the danger if he continues to riff around it, which is what you saw happening on the friendly interview he had with tucker carlson about this. tucker trying hard to give him open space to maybe perhaps say i misspoke, which would be better for our country. can you explain why that might be better in terms of how the world views this president? >> the president in that interview with tucker was trying to muddy the water. there may be other items, i was talking in quo indication marks. it's about surveilness, not necessarily wiretapping. whether it is surveilness through a microwave or a telephone or cell phone is totally irrelevant.

he accused the president of committing a crime, president obama. he has not wrote that back. he suggested there will be other bits of information he may release over the course of several weeks. the problem is, the longer this goes on, it jurundermines their credibility. you cannot trust what the president says as fact. still ahead on "morning joe," words come back to haunt the trump administration. legal expert jonathan turley says it's light on the president and the case law. later, senator rand paul joins us for an exclusive talk. plus, deep cuts to the budget, 30% to the state department. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. this is the story of green mountain coffee and fair trade, told in the time it takes to brew your cup. let's take a trip to la plata, colombia. this is boris calvo.

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welcome back.

religis discrimination sums up president trump's travel ban according to a federal judge in hawaii, who last night issued a temporary nationwide restraining order on the administrations new ban. the revised ban was scheduled to go into effect today. u.s. district judge, derek watson says the pause on issues visa's from six muslim majority countries is on the basis of religious discrimination. they comment he made in february when he told fox news the travel ban is just like the first one. >> one of the big differences you are going to see is it is responsive to the judicial ruling, which didn't exist previously. they are minor, technical differences. fundamentally, you are going to have the same basic policy outcome for the country. in terms of protecting the country, those basic policies are going to be in effect. also in the ruling, the

judge writes, quote, the ill logic of the government's intentions the palpable. the notion one can demonstrate an mouse to one group of people by targeting all at once is fundamentally flawed. he cited specific comments from the president himself. quote, the record before this court is unique. significant evidence of religious an mouse driving the executive order and its related predecessor. in march, 2016, mr. trump said during an interview, i think islam hates us. he was asked, is there a war between the west and radical islam or the west and islam itself? he replied, it is hard to separate. you don't know who is who. at a rally in nashville, president trump was defiant. >> a judge has just blocked our executive order orravel and refugees coming into our country

from certain countries. this ruling makes us look weak. which, by the way, we no longer are, believe me. this is a watered down version of the first one. this is a watered down version and let me tell you something. i think we ought to go back to the first one and go all the way, which is what i wanted to do in the first place. >> the department of justice writes, in part, the president's executive order falls within his lawful authority in seeking to protect our security and will continue to defend the executive order in court. let's bring in law profrese sor, jonathan turley. what do you make of the judge's comments as he moves to block this ban? >> well, it's not too surprising in the sense that the ninth circuit opinion is still good law. the trump administration drafted

the original order badly, they defended it badly and left the earlier order in place. that's like a torpedo in water and it really hit. this judge is in the ninth circuit. to make matters worse, you have people, political individuals throwing red meat in the media while the justice department is talking like vegans inou. >> right. >> the judgou couldn't help but notice that and say who am i supposed to believe. having said that, i thought it was a mirror image. i think it's light on case law, surprisingly light, more narrative. it spends a lot of time talking about campaign statements. >> how useful are they? they certainly mean something to us because he's living up to his promises in this specific case. it's a little frightening. how useful in the rule of law are campaign statements? >> i have to tell you, i thought

that was a very weak emphasis in opinion and i would be surprised if judges put that emphasis on campaign statements. you know, the court relies on a case called mccreery, which says you don't have to take the facial neutrality. they say it is facially neutral. there's another case handed down that went the opposite way that day in 2005. i don't think that the case law is quite as strong as the judge makes out to be. >> katty kay. >> it's katty kay here. this ruling, like the previous ruling largely lies on proceeding comments from the president and his administration and new comments by members of the administration. what happens to the ban on the ban from hawaii? how does this play out? >> that's a good question. you have a national restraining order, which this judge is perfectly permitted to do.

it would go, ultimately to the ninth circuit if the trump administration decides to go for an emergency order, which is what administrations will do in such a circumstance. the ninth circuit has to review this opinion and other opinions as they come down. i think that the administration is going to use this second order, just by what the president said, to take it all the way to the supreme court. i think the odds favor the administration. >> jonathan turley, thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe," 28% of the state department and 21% of the ag department, 14% of the department of education, deep cuts from the trump administration budget. it is dead on arrival with the president's own party? mick mulvaney joins us just ahead on "morning joe." look closely.

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welcome back to "morning joe." the white house is unveiling spending priorities in the america first budget. president trump's first budget proposal includes a $54 billion increase in defense spending, a 9% jump and 7% jump to homeland security and 6% in vetens

affairs. they say it will be upset by cuts to other agencies slashing the state department by 28% and agriculture by 21% with reductions to health, human services, education and more. the biggest loser, the environmental protection agency wiping out 50 programs and 3200 jobs. the budget funds the president's promised border wall with mexico, putting down $1.7 billion this year and $2.6 billion in 2018. joining us now, director of the office of management and budget, mick mulvaney. good to see you this morning. >> morning. >> here are the headlines, $50 billion more to defense, a big military build up and cuts to programs that affect a lot of people in the country, the department of education and e.p.a. how do you defend that? >> put the graphs back up on the screen and i can point to

speeches the president gave during his campaign. that's how we wrote the budget, took lines from his campaign and turned policy into numbers. folk that is voted for the president are getting what they asked for. >> people seeing the numbers like the f-35 fighter cost $100 million or so to build one of those. at the same time, repealing away afterschool programs and hurting schools, it's diverted with charter school and school choice. do you see why people are upset about that? do we need another f-35? >> there's waste in the defense department as well and asked general mattis to work on that. homeland security, taking care of veterans and school of choice. that's what we have. when you look at reducing spending, we asked, can we continue to ask a coal miner in

west virginia or single mom in detroit to pay for these programs? the answer is no. we can't ask them to continue to pay for the corporation -- >> let me ask you about the state department, 28% or so there. what is the impact? >> it's bad for american national security. every past secretary of defense would say given a choice of continuing the state department and putting more money into the pentagon, we get more bang for our buck by what the state department does around the world. what it will do is hurt american support for fighting disease. what that does is we are going to be vulnerable to infectious disease. we saw refugees flow. it seems to me, it has a narrow definition. how can you justify building up the fence, cutting state and leaving entitlements alone? why our entitlements -- >> the reason entitlements are

not addressed is this is the budget blueprint. this is just the discretionary spending part of the budget. there will be a more full budget in may including tax policy, health care policy and mandatory spending. we add revenues and policies. this is just the top line spending numbers. to your point, by the trade off of state and the military, make no mistake about it, this is a hard, power budget, not soft power. that is what the president wants. >> mark halperin has a question for you in washington. mark? >> obviously sometimes people look at the cuts and say the sky is falling. can you talk about where you are concerned? perhaps the cuts may hurt americans lives, if anywhere? >> no. i think we are actually doing exactly what we said to do to protect americans. we are spending more money, for example on the border. we are spending money on law enforcement generally. you see a reduction in the department of justice, the

amount of money they have to enforce the laws go up. we cut a bunch of grant programs. we have grant programs in the department of justice. something i didn't know about until i got in this job. we are doing a better job of protecting americans and making reductions in programs that don't work or programs that haven't been authorized by congress. we have a lot of those and programs that can't prove they are getting a bang for their buck. >> mick mulvaney, thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe." >> i brought copies of the art of the deal. we are in the prenegotiation stage. i don't think there will be meaningful negotiation unless it is apparent the house bill cann pass. th i what i'm hoping happens. i do not believe the hse bill will lower insurance premiums. conservatives want a seat at the table. we don't want obamacare-lite, you know? people are saying we ran on this house leadership bill. we didn't. >> paul ryan acknowledges changes will be made.

is it enough for senator rand paul dressed up in a tuxedo last night. he joins us live in a couple minutes and will get his reaction to what senator john mccain said about him. you are watching "morning joe." dearthere's no other way to say this. it's over. i've found a permanent escape from monotony. together, we are perfectly balanced. our senses awake. our hearts racing as one.

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hex tillerson is defending the budget cuts to his department. he is in tokyo where he made news cceing the threat for north korea. andrea mitchell has more from tokyo. >> reporter: here in tokyo today, the secretary of state, rex tillerson, facing the trump white house's first foreign policy test. the north korean threat saying they are coming up with a new strategy offering new details and a blistering denunciation of predecessors. >> recognize that the diplomatic

and other efforts of the past 20 years to bring north korea to a point of denuclearization have failed. we have 20 years of failed approach. that includes a period the united states provided $1.35 billion in assistance to north korea as an encouragement to take a different pathway. that encouragement has been met with further development of nuclear capabilities, more missile launches including those of the february 11th and march 5th. in the face of this ever escalating threat, it is clear a different approach is required. >> reporter: tillerson met with prime minister abe today and asked about the state department's proposed 29% budget cut according to the white house this morning. he said the current spending level is not sustainable and he accepts the challenge of

spending less, saying they would manage because there will be fewer military conflicts. allies will spent more on development and the state department under the trump administration would be more efficient. he has to be the first secretary of state to say they will do with less money for his own department. that will likelyot be received very well by an already battered state department work force. >> wow. joining us now under secretary of state rick stengel. rick, what do you make of that? is there a learning curve here that rex tillerson is under -- >> he's on it. he's on the learning curve. >> why take less money and be okay with that? >> in the just saying department, the increase to the defense department budget, the 10% invees is larger than the entire state department budget and the entire foreign aid budget. just saying. >> just saying. >> as secretary of defense has

said, when you cut my military budget, i need to buy more ammunition. the defense guys know the money we spend on soft power, not just soft power, makes the world more dangerous. they have to be prepared for that. >> how would you assess, what is happening with rex tillerson's role so far and what do you make of no press or one reporter on this trip to asia? >> i think, mika, there is a learning curve. i think he's not used to have been press around him all the time. he has to learn how to do this. i thought, despite what andrea said, what he said about the budget cuts was very lukewarm. i mean it was one and a half cheers for it. he can't say this is a terrible idea. he knows that there areo ny friends of the state dpartment in the senate, even on the republican side who don't want to see these soft power programs cut. by the way, when you cut that much, you are not cutting soft power, you are cutting the state department that monitors north

korea missiles, peace keeping efforts preventing you from spending money for the defense department. >> were you surprised to hear him come in and echo the trump language and tone about everything is a disaster without offering specifics of how to make it better? >> i would say, to be realistic, nobody but nobody is going to say our north korea policy over the past 20 years has been successful. what we won't say is let's do to north korea what we did to iran where we stopped the production of their nuclear program. that is the thing you need to do with north korea put together a group to do that same thing for north korea. >> rick, stick with us. we want to go to capitol hill, senator from kentucky, rand paul. senator, good morning. good to see you. >> good morning. >> we are going to get to health care in a moment. first want to get your reaction to the word senator john mccain had for you from the senate flood yesterday. let's listen. >> i know the senator from

kentucky leaving the floor without justification or rational for the action that he has just taken. that is really remarkable that a senator, blocking a treaty that is supported by the overwhelming number of perhaps 98, at least of his colleagues would come to the floor and object and walk away. and walk away. the only conclusion you can draw when he walks away is he has no argument to be made. he has no justification for his objection to having a small nation be part of nato that is under assault from the russians. so, i repeat again, the senator from kentucky is now working for vladimir putin. >> senator, context around that. the vote was around putting them

into nato. what is your reaction to senator mccain's characterization of your objection? >> i think he makes a really, really strong case for term limits. i think maybe he's past his prime, maybe he's gotten unhinged. i do think that when we talk about nato, there can be a rational discussion about the pros and cons of expanding it. we currently have combat troops in six nations. we have troops actively stationed in probably a couple dozen others. we have a $20 trillion debt. one of my favorite articles of the last couple years is one that talked about the angry mccain's. if we put active troops in combat where mccain wants us to be, they put an angry mccain on the map. it's virtually everywhere. his foreign policy would greatly endanger the united stateand overextend us. there has to be thought

whether or not it's in our national interest to pledge to get involved with war if they have an altercation with anyone. there's also another argument, when you ask the people only about 40% or slightly less are slightly in favor of this. they are close to russia and close to being like ukraine in the transition from europe to asia. perhaps it would be good to be like switzerland and trade with both. so, there's a lot of considerations but to call someone somehow an enemy of the state or a traitor might be considered by most reasonable people over the top. >> senator, you called john mccain unhinged. he said he was past his prime. why do you think so many other senators voted in favor of this measure if it is crazy? >> there's a bipartisan consensus that the whole world should be in nato. if we have ukraine in nato, we would be at war now because

russia has invaded both of them. i think having former satellites or former parts of the soviet union is nato is provocative. you have to decide in advance whether you are ready go to war. if you are ready to send a million troops to ukraine and fight world war iii, you are going to do it without my support. >> do you think albania and croatia should have been allowed in nato in 2009? >> it's a debate in how big it should be and whether or not it's more provocative than good. there's a debate the president brought up, we seem to be paying for all of it. when there's a war fought, our soldiers fight it and our dollars pay for it. the soldiers they have are hardly an asset to our national security. really, our decisions need to be about our national security. i don't think it enhances our

security to have them part of nato. >> rick stenge having worked there what do you think? >> i would ask the senator, what countries would you actually take out of nato that nato expanded? i think it's a perfectly valid argument to say nato has expanded too much. i think there's a second tier in nato. senator, how would you do it differently? >> i guess i would reverse the argument and ask you the question, do you think ukraine and georgia being in nato are good for our national defense? i think it's a ridiculous notion. they want ukraine and georgia. they better think it through and ask the american people -- i guarantee, if you ask the american people, are you ready to march tomorrow to support them, are you ready to march tomorrow, send your dollars, because none of these nations pay close to their 2%, are you ready to fight and die for them,

ukraine, georgia. i think the people, really, if we are asked that question, you would find many more side with me than the so-called bipartisan consensus up here that spent us to oblivion. >> senator, there's a little bit of a false choice there in terms of comparing them to ukraine. ukraine is the size of france in the middle of europe. there are many, many ukrainian americans, people would fight and die for ukraine in america, but might not for the other. >> i would not prevent anybody from volunteering to fight. i would not send our soldiers there. i don't think it's in u.s. national interest to have our soldiers in there and say this is our war. yes, the same people who want them, this is not the same battle, but the same people and we have not had the battle. we have had some battles and probably i was the one who

unilaterally stopped them from rushing georgia in a couple years ago. i look at that as saving thousands of american lives being lost in a country that is of no security to the united states. >> can we turn to health care? >> gladly. >> speaking as a physician yourself and a senator, when you look at what the debate that is going on in the white house and the white house's efforts to push through the republican plan in the house, how much does that plan have to change to get through the senate? >> i think there's a lot of republican unity. there's a lot of agreement on repeal. in fact, it's one of the things that brought us together more than any other issue over the last six years. there really isn't a great deal of unity over paul ryan's replacement plan. in fact, it is false to go around saying you ran on my plan. the heck we did. we have been running on repeal for years and years, but nobody was running on we'll give you half as many subsidies, half as

many taxes. instead of paying an individual mandate to the government, pay it to the insurance company. none of us ran on that. no conservative is for his plan. i think his plan is dead on arrival. my hope is it never leaves the house. my hope is we separate repeal from replace. there's great ideas that could have bipartis support. i have been talking to democrats all week about, let's have buying groups. aarp has 37 million people. what if we let them become a buying group. can you imagine the leverage they would have to force prices down? i want to see lower prices, i don't want to see obamacare-lite. it will not bring down prices and we'll be back stuck in the same situation we are in a year from now with less people with insurance and higher premiums. >> the one problem with this is if this plan is deeply flawed, as many are concerned it is, this president wants a win. i'm not sure he's concerned with

just exactly what is in it as long as it's a win. would anyone agree with that contention? >> i would agree with that. i don't know that he knows the details. >> i think he's concerned with not having a loss. >> exactly. which makes the job for republicans and democrats even harder because we don't want to rip health care away from people who needs it, do we? is there anybody, rand paul or a republican who wants to do it to their constituents? >> well, senator? >> i think in order to understand how to fix something is understand what is wrong with the current system. what's wrong with the current system is the market. group insurance is working largely okay in the country. if you are a plumber and best control business, you are worried you will get sick and rates are going up. your rates are going up dramatically because we have one fundamental thing that is part of obamacare that doesn't work. you can get insurance after you are sick. if you say that, you have to

force healthy people to get in. beat them over the head with an individual mandate. that wasn't enough and didn't work. the premiums are skyrocketing. if you keep that mandate, but get rid of the individual mandate, but keep the one that says you can buy insurance after you are sick, it will not work. on the left you have them saying it. on theight others are saying it. it ds not work. insurance premiums will sll go through the roof if we keep that fundmental premise. there is a way to protect people. let every individual join a group. when you are in group insurance, you are protected against pre-existing conditions and the leverage of lower prices. allowing groups to go across state lines, co-ops. i'm talking to progressive democrats not against co-ops. some developed in oregon, not a big red state anymore. they are a great idea. they are voluntary and fix the

current problem and the price problem. we should be talking about that. i would do that first and see what it does over the next six months as we work out the final repeal. >> senator rand paul, thank you for being on the show this morning. up next, the audience for the premier of one broadway show included canadian prime minister justin trudeau, avan ka trump and u.n. ambassador nikki haley. tom brokaw joins us with the unique story born out of the hours after the 9/11 attacks. keep it here on "morning joe." so how old do you want to be when you retire? uhh, i was thinking around 70. alright, and before that? you mean after that? no, i'm talking before that. do you have things you want to do before you retire? oh yeah sure... , like what? but i thought we were supposed to btalking about investing for retirement? we're absolutely doing that. but there's no law you can't make the most of today. what do you want to do? i'd really like to run with the bulls.

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you'll always be absolutely...clear. ♪ time to think of your future it's your retirement. know where you stand. a new musical with perhaps an unlikely premise premiered on broadway. after the attacks of september 11th, 167 planes were diverted to a remote corner of canada. what happened in the days that followed is the backdrop from the show, "come from away." tom brokaw told this to viewers seven yearsago during the vancouver olympic ♪ here on the edge of the atlantic ♪ >> reporter: the chaos and the skies and the hours of the 9/11 attacks and the safe harbor found by thousands of travelers in the town of gander in new

finland. what have you heard about what happened at gander and said i can make a musical autoout of t. how many people said have you lost your mind? >> you have to tell the story with music. it's in the dna of us. that's what inspired us. >> reporter: during the vancouver olympics, i had the privilege of sharing that story with viewers on both sides of the border. 50 minutes after the north tower was struck, an unprecedented decision was made, they must land immediately. >> we must land at gander, turn right at 320. >> reporter: with almost no warning, gander's vast tarmac was filled with airplanes. gander's chief constable. >> i'm looking saying holy god. just, if there's 200 people on

each one of these planes, we are going to get 40 or 50 planes, that's an awful lot of people reporter: in gander one, 38 airplanes, 7,000 stranded passengers and crew and a small town of less than 10,000 all with open arms. mayor claude elliott knew his people would rise to the occasion. >> we like helping people. it making people happy is. i think the greatest need was love. they needed love and compassion. >> the most emotional thing for me and my crew, we got off the airplane at 7:00 in the morning. so, i knew then they had been up all night preparing this food. we just couldn't believe it. >> reporter: the bonds that formed during those remarkable days between the ganderites and those that came from away have

been and play out on stage. the canadian husband and wife writing team were in new york at the time of 9/11. >> there's a sense of kindness that happened. it's one of the reasons we talk about it as a 9/12 musical rather than 9/11 musical. ♪ suddenly i have my wings >> this is a good reminder we are all actually good and at the heart of us, we do want to look out for one another. >> reporter: the citizens of gander, who welcomed the world are now, themselves, the toast of the town. but they are really not sure what all the fuss is about. >> we do not consider ourselves heroes. the heroes to our society was the men and women that went into the world trade center to try to save lives, the firefighters, the police officers, the paramedics. >> one thing i have hundreds of wonderful friends i didn't have before 9/11. ♪

>> reporter: can you dance as well as the person that ays you on the stage? >> not on yr life. >> we can vounlg for that. we have seen her dance. >> reporter: canadian prime minister justin trudeau attended the performance and invited special guests, including first daughter, ivanka trump. did you invite her father to come? >> i think so. one of the challenges that i have had over the past few months and one of the responsibilities of any canadian prime minister is highlighting how close a relationship is between canada and the united states. i think this story encapsulates so much what we share through great times and also through extraordinarily tragic times. >> tom brokaw joins us now in studio. i was with you in vancouver. i remember you presenting that story. i never heard that, how did i miss it? other people were noticing, the people who put the show together. >> i must said, when we went to

gander to do it, i had no idea what we were getting into. we put the story on air, the vancouver olympics, i never had a public reaction like that. in canada and this country. it spoke to what people feel in their hearts. we all have to help each other here. no republicans, no democrats, no tea party people, a little town of gander saying we do it out of love. we have to help these people. it's a message i don't think ever dies, quite honestly. i have now seen the show twice and i'm removed by it. i can't get cynical by it. >> i felt the same thing watching the piece. i want to see the show and i want to remember those moments where we all came together. i think it actually does restore a lot of hope in tough times. >> very good example how they handled it, though. the mayor says, look, this is what we do. we help each other. i have been in gander. when he was interviewed by a newspaper reporter they said

were you nervous? he thought i bet he's nervous interviewing the mayor of gander. >> i love it. >> how did gander change? >> it has not changed. they are getting more tourism, which they welcome. i haven't seen these people since the vancouver olympics. they are exactly the same. fudge did show up last night in his police uniform, which was quite fancy, i must say. no longer a baseball cap. he had purple piping and very highly polished shoes. they are thrilled with the attention they are getting, but they are going to go home to gander and continue to fish and log and do the things they always do. the town hall is tim horton's the canadian version of mcdonalds. they gather there and talk about things. they have three tim hortons. they used to have just one. they are doing well. >> the town doubled their size that day the planes landed? gander itself? >> population? the population about 9,000 and

they had over 7,000 people. >> amazing. >> doubled in a moment. >> doubled in a day. >> a jogger was running down the street and people stopped him again and again. here is my address, the door is open. that went on all over the place. >> i love that. what a great note to end the show on today. thank you so much. that does it for us this morning. it is thursday, right? that means tomorrow is friday. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much, mika. good morning, i'm stephanie ruhle. we have breaking news to cover. a second judge blocks the travel ban this morning after another judge shut it down last night. >> we are going to fight this terrible rule. >> hard power. the president's proposed budget just out. huge cuts to the e.p.a., the state department and much more. no evidence. the republican head of the intel committee says trump tower was